MyDD :: What it looks like to people grounded in reality

What it looks like to people grounded in reality

by SovSov, Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:06:39 PM EST

I don't know about you people, but I feel like Hillary is about to say "I'm ready for my close up, Mr. DeMille." That "Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!" moment was almost painful. I felt that she was the only person in the room who did not get it. The pundits, after the speech, took a couple of secs to put on a good face for the loony tune moment. Notice the director in the clip below looks like none other than James Carville!

As we move back to reality, people are asking "what role can Billary play for Obama?" At first thought it could help to have Billary pushing, whole hog, for Team Obama. Yet.....

Here is a candidate who took the presumptive win, a name bigger than God, more money than one could imagine, the Party's power, a slew of multi-million dollar experts, and the tiara, and drove her ship right onto the rocks. Then you have that marvelous husband. Every time he wags his finger for Obama we will have to regain the 4,000 voters he made sick. Do we want these two anywhere near the Obama campaign?

We want Hillary's voters, we should work hard to get them, we should take some of her message but, we shouldn't let her and Bill anywhere near the microphone.

Hillary's supporters are good people. We want them. I just think Billary has to move on and get away. At this point there is serious talk about offering Obama Hillary's exit speech as long as his campaign agrees to pay all her outstanding debt. Can you imagine, asking Obama to pay Penn's outstanding bills?

Hillary's good voters are no longer hostages. They don't have to suffer Bill, Penn, and all the other pains. Welcome to the Party.

Tags: obama, hillary, concession speach, future (all tags)

Permalink :: 48 Comments :: Post a Comment

Is this snark? (2.00 / 4)

Offending us or offending "Billary" won't placate us at all.

Welcome to the Party - that's offensive. Bet most of us have been in this Party a lot longer than you have.

by Montague on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:10:16 PM EST

Re: Is this snark? (1.14 / 7)

Most people agree, Hillary was counseled, and agreed, to run a very republican campaign. Clinton has always been a movement to the center. I call it a cop-out. So no, I don't see Clinton(s) as democrats. And we now see the Party is not all too happy with them.

by SovSov on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:12:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No matter what you think... (2.00 / 2)

We need the Clintons. This is the closest primary in decades; to think that they're not an important force in our politics is insane. We can't just cut them off...

THAT is the Republican thing to do. Remember, there's room for everyone at Obama's table.

In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

by Dracomicron on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:15:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No matter what you think... (none / 0)

You had me until that final sentence.

by Montague on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:23:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Unity = bad? (none / 0)

I don't get it. Obama's predicated his entire candidacy on getting solutions that work, regardless of who they're from.

In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

by Dracomicron on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:38:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Unity = bad? (none / 0)

"I don't get it. Obama's predicated his entire candidacy on getting solutions that work, regardless of who they're from."

Posted by Dracomicron

To me this says it all.

Where is the inclusive 5o state campaigne that Sen. Obama promised.

The one that included us all as American's.

Including the Independants and cross over Republicans. I want to believe it but I have been watching this primary season.

Can't say I felt the love over the past primary season. What I saw and this is my opinion of the past events, this primary season was mean spirited and very very partisan. I'm not the only folks to feel this way either.

I can ask the two candidates to bury the hatchet (not in each other please) but not sure I could ask or expect this aceptance from the voters.

Can't stay to chat but Dracomicron comment just put into words what I was trying to earlier.

Thanks for posting and people just wear is the love?

12 dogs.

Dracomicron I hope you don't mind if I post this comment in my diary. Thank you.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:28:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Unity = bad? (none / 0)

I admit that things have strayed from the high road a few times on both sides of the campaign, but I honestly don't give a lot of credit to the complaints that Obama is somehow constantly attacking first and race baiting and all that.

I've seen the evidence; it's either misleading or speculation.

I think you'll see with clearer eyes Obama running on behalf of all Americans who want change soon enough.

In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

by Dracomicron on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:01:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Unity = bad? (none / 0)

You are again using a meme I dislike. "Change"? Okay, but WHAT change? The vagueness is alarming.

Paul Krugman advocates change. And he describes it in great detail. The kind of changes we need in the healthcare delivery system. The kind of changes we need in regulating industry.

Hillary also makes clear policy statements all the time. At least I know what she intends to do.

Change, unity, hope. Nice words, and sometimes we need these things. But I need a lot more details and a much better evidence of past ability to deliver if you want my vote.

by Montague on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:18:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Unity = bad? (none / 0)

First of all, "Obama's table"? That just feeds the "he's the one" meme, which is anathema to me. I don't care WHO the candidate is, no one is ever "the one who can heal this nation" or whatever nonsense. In my entire life I've never been impressed with so-called inspiring talk from a politician. I am a skeptic and I expect a politician to prove her- or himself.

Secondly, he's made it pretty clear that he will work with Rethugs and cave in to Rethug ideas. I think that's a sucky way for a Democratic president to behave. I felt similarly about Bill Clinton when he caved on some things.

Thirdly, I don't trust Obama's judgement (see item 2 above) to know what solutions work. To be honest, I'd rather have a Democratic Congress fighting a Rethug president because at least they will hold together and fight to preserve important programs like Social Security. If a Dem president wants to look at partial privatization, then Congress may cave in.

by Montague on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:15:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is this snark? (2.00 / 1)

You get a TR for saying the Clintons aren't Democrats.

Hillary's votes, as you know, are as liberal as Obama's. (What few votes we have to go by, for him, that is.)

by Montague on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:22:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is this snark? (none / 0)

Thank you.

by SovSov on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:54:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not letting Clinton campaign for him... (2.00 / 2)

was a big mistake that Gore made. That was one thing that cost him the presidency. Let's not make the same mistake again.

Check out McCain.

by you like it on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:24:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not letting Clinton campaign for him... (none / 0)

actually, there's a pretty legit theory by a pretty prominent political scientist that says, basically, that gore lost in large part because of the monica thing. can't remember the guy's name offhand, but the article appeared in a british political journal, if memory serves.

by jbill on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:53:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not letting Clinton campaign for him... (none / 0)

Why would that be, when Clinton left office with a nearly sky-high approval rating? Admittedly, political scientists are theorizing and disagreeing with one another and they can't all be right.

by Montague on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:20:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is this snark? (2.00 / 2)

A very Republican campaign? One that promises universal health, protecting abortion rights, letting the Bush tax cuts expire, withdrawing from Iraq? That's very republican? If so, I am in the wrong party!

by Mayor McCheese on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:25:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is this snark? (none / 0)

In content it may have been democratic. In mode, it was very very republican. It played to fears, racism, and negativity. I've been watching this since Carter and I've never seen a democrat go after a democrat like this. No one has. Thus, people marvel at how Penn was able to get people to do this. Sorry. It isn't what your mouth says, it is how you are walking that counts.

by SovSov on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:56:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is this snark? (2.00 / 1)

So you didn't see Jerry Brown attack Bill Clinton. Or Bill Bradly impugn Gore's integrity non stop? Or Teddy Kennedy fight it out with Carter?

by Mayor McCheese on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:00:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is this snark? (none / 0)

Yes, and none of your examples come close to this. Hillary has gone after the Muslim thing "as far as I know," the black thing with 24/7 Wright, elitest thing, etc. Her campaign was run by Penn who was also sitting pretty with McCain's campaign. "Shame on you Obama" for what? Telling the truth. So, no, history is being made anew and not repeating itself. Sorry.

by SovSov on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:07:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is this snark? (2.00 / 2)

Have one from me two. What an outrageous statement.

No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...

by jarhead5536 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:26:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is this snark? (2.00 / 1)

I couldn't count how many times I've been personally insulted in this campaign simply because I supported Obama. Doesn't make either side right, but keep in mind this, at the very least, a two-way street.

Hooray for John McCain!

by ragekage on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:16:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is this snark? (2.00 / 1)

Same here in terms of personal insults, etc.

My point is, the diarist is going to help his/her candidate LOSE by behaving this way.

by Montague on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:23:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is this snark? (2.00 / 4)

I have belonged to the party since the early 60`s and have supported every candidate that came along. I have never seen one like Obama. He is truly transformational,because he has managed to transform me and my entire family into a registered independents.

Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime

by gunner on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:35:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is this snark? (none / 0)

You're not alone.

by Montague on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:23:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What it looks like to people grounded in reali (none / 0)

Hillary yes, Bill, not so much.

You're so right about the finger-waving thing. When that "Five times to my face he promised me! Five times to my face!" story came out, my first thought was to wonder if he even today realizes what the first thing people think of every time he insists on the truth of something.

by Mostly on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:10:32 PM EST

An unnecessarily hostile diary. (2.00 / 1)

Boo.

by McNasty on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:11:58 PM EST

If you really want Hillary's voters (2.00 / 1)

Spewing stuff like this probably isn't the best way to go about getting them.

by Mayor McCheese on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:14:15 PM EST

Re: If you really want Hillary's voters (2.00 / 2)

I agree. To quote someone, words matter. And words like "Billary" are not very conducive to bringing people together.

It's just the beat of time, the beat that must go on
If you've been trying for years, we already heard your song

by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:23:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you really want Hillary's voters (2.00 / 1)

Exactly.

by Blue Jean on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:27:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're not helping. (2.00 / 4)

You're also underestimating the Clintons' ability.

In any other year, Bill Clinton would have been Obama's strongest advocate throughout the primary season. Obama encapsulates the soul of what Bill Clinton has always projected in politics: a hopeful new message.

If the Clintons just slink away from the stage now, we not only divide the party but lose some of its most forceful campaigners.

I don't know about you, but having been on the recieving end of the Clintons for months now, I'm looking forward to pointing that meatgrinder towards McCain.

As long as we can all stay on Obama's message, I feel that overlooking the Clintons as campaigners is stupid and vindictive. We can't afford to lose their base or their expertise.

Okay, fine. You got me. I want Chelsea on my side. She rocks.

In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

by Dracomicron on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:14:20 PM EST

Re: You're not helping. (none / 0)

The negative campaign imploded. A meat grinder approach is the last thing Obama should be using.

by SovSov on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:16:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Figure of speech (none / 0)

They can still grind up McCain on the war, on the Supreme Court, and a host of other 100% legitimate issues.

In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

by Dracomicron on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:18:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you (none / 0)

Thank you SovSov for a very logical and positive Diary.

Ignore the fish-flopping haters on here.

They will run out of steam soon.

Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:19:22 PM EST

Re: Thank you (none / 0)

And the Obamathon will also run out of steam, right around the first week in November.

by Montague on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:24:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's not logical or positive (2.00 / 1)

I'm not sure where you're getting that pissing off Team Clinton is somehow the smart or correct thing to do.

In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

by Dracomicron on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:42:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's not logical or positive (none / 0)

Im not trying to piss off team clinton.

What I am tired of is the "I don't care about Democrats, Hillary is the only candidate".

Yes I hope these nutjobs on here run out of steam soon, it's painful to watch.

Unless they are republicans they must have some sense of reason in them.

This is bordering on immature whining.

You know, and I know that the day Hillary concedes these same posters will continue on.

But no, they would rather spend another 100 million dollars to take it to convention.

Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:53:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What it looks like to people grounded in reali (2.00 / 4)

"Hillary's good voters are no longer hostages. They don't have to suffer Bill, Penn, and all the other pains. Welcome to the Party."

This HRC supporter desperately wants to win the election in November and will go all out to support Obama.

Its precisely because I want to win, however, that statements like this piss me off. Do you not realize how you come across when you write crap like this? Do you really think the best way to court Hillary supporters is to suggest they were somehow hostages during the last six months and weren't really part of the Democratic Party? It's like you're saying, "Fortunately, you guys made it through this brief period of dementia where you sold out your democratic principles."

This kind of holier-than-thou righteous attitude on the part of Obama supporters is not only ridiculous and reflects a fundamental immaturity in your political perspective, but it is exactly what threatens to keep the party divided.

John McCain: Extending SCHIP would be an "unfunded liability."

by Fuzzy Dunlop on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:20:13 PM EST

I'm trying (2.00 / 1)

I'll continue to work on all these sore winners as much as I can.

I'm a little ashamed of some of my fellow Obama supporters here.

In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

by Dracomicron on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:41:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, when you get done here (2.00 / 1)

You can head to Huffington Post, TPM, Kos, etc. for additional counseling of comrades. This poster seems like Stuart Smalley compared to many on those places.

by lombard on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:16:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually (none / 0)

When I'm done here I'm going to probably try to find a conservative blog to go to.

That's the Bold New Frontier: converting Republicans. I think Ron Paul supporters are the best bet.

In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

by Dracomicron on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:46:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm trying (none / 0)

Thanks. You are not alone as I see a lot of other Obama supporters out there who are doing the same thing.

Even though my candidate lost last night, in some ways I feel better today about the upcoming election than I have in months. Its really heartening after all the acrimonious bullshit to see the positive and conciliatory attitudes of many people on both sides. Electing a democratic president has always been my number #1 goal, and today I feel better about our chances than I have in long time.

John McCain: Extending SCHIP would be an "unfunded liability."

by Fuzzy Dunlop on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:26:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Roger that. (none / 0)

We're in pretty good shape if you ask me.

In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

by Dracomicron on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:47:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I can't wait until they work their magic (none / 0)

on the people outside of the Democratic party.

There should be plenty more ignorant rubes who are held hostage against their true interests for them to liberate and educate.

by lombard on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:20:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're probably right. (none / 0)

And yes, I'm going to try.

In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

by Dracomicron on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:48:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

boooooooooooo (2.00 / 5)

This reads like a fake Obama diary written by a McCain operative designed to piss off Clinton supporters.

This Obama supporter wants nothing to do with the sexist, stupid remarks in this diary.

by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:22:15 PM EST

Your theory is not impossible (none / 0)

If the diarist is on the level, a McCain operative couldn't have done a much better job other than to have insulted the Clinton supporters with the usual pejorative stereotypes.

But, this is exactly the kind of Obama supporter (and there are plenty of them although they are definitely a minority on MyDD) that made Clinton supporters so bitter. He probably thinks he is being gracious with this post - at least he didn't comment on our senility, lack of education, or our shabby trailer homes.

by lombard on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:14:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't know (none / 0)

I don't think this diary is that bad.

I actually thought the second paragraph was quite funny.

Well, anyway I've worked too hard and donated too much for anyone to rain on my parade today. As an Obama supporter, I feel bad that Hillary didn't perform better yesterday, but I am quite a happy camper this afternoon.

c'est la vie!

"Beauty, more than bitterness, makes the heart break." Sara Teasdale

by april34fff on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:46:01 PM EST

I'm trying to be gracious (2.00 / 0)

After suffering the #1 diarist's post the other day, which mentioned Wright 23 times, I'm still calling everyone "Hillary's good voters." The reason people ran to Wright was b/c they knew it played big with blue collar, no college, men. The same guys who said, in the greatest numbers, they would not vote for a black man. Playing to the racist vote was painful for us and yet, we still love you. Thus, lighten up and join on in. The clip is funny so...it is a salve.

by SovSov on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:53:30 PM EST

Actually (none / 0)

I rather think I'd enjoy chatting with Wright. He's got some wacky ideas, but also some I agree with. At least he appears to be consistent when he talks. If Obama, on the other hand, invited me to his house for dinner, I wouldn't bother.

About a year ago, I was thinking, hey, let's get a Democratic president, maybe Edwards, maybe Clinton, maybe Richardson. Then in eight years, that Obama guy might be experienced enough. When it became clear that people would indeed vote for a woman, I was thinking it would be cool to have a woman for president, and down the road, an African-American. What happened, unfortunately, has now split many factions in the party. We could have had it all in the next two decades. Instead, we'll have more Rethugs in the WH, and also women have now been reminded that men aren't ready to share the power structure.

by Montague on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:29:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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